First let's do a pro's/con's analysisPro's
1. Has run a positive campaign
2. Seems genuinely concerned for social justice on an international level
3. Great orator
Con's
1. Marxism
Then there is the question of abortion. He supports it being legal, but he doesn't stop there. Obama goes so far as to deny proper medical treatment to a child that has been born alive due to a botched abortion. Here is the link to the article, and a link to the transcript of his words on the floor of the Illinois Senate in 2002. I encourage you to read them. If you don't want to follow the links though, and would like me to summarize, he voted against a bill that would have required the attending physician to come into the room and check the baby if the aborting physician had reason to believe the child was alive.
Obama didn't want the doctor who botched the abortion to be troubled with bringing in another doctor. He said he is willing to trust the doctor who just made a huge mistake to handle the care of the child. That's not how we handle any other medical malpractice, and it especially shouldn't be how we handle them when a child's life is at stake. And besides says Obama, he's afraid this legislation will somehow be used to undermine Roe v Wade and God forbid that happen! Even Planned Parenthood supported this bill. Only a very few opposed it, only the ultra abortionists.
Also, during the Rick Warren interview, Obama said that the answer to the question "when does human life begin?" was "above his pay grade". He's saying he doesn't know when human life begins, and he's suggesting that the medical community is unclear on the subject. Well, it's not unclear at all, and he should know that. The issue of a "fetus" being a life has been settled for quite some time. And even if it wasn't clear, say I'm hunting "is that a human or a deer in those bushes? Shoot first! We need supper!".
But many evangelicals are supporting Obama in spite of these views and votes. They say let's not look at just this one issue, and besides even if the next President packed the court with Roe v Wade haters, it may still be very hard to get it outlawed in all 50 states, maybe even impossible.
So in a nutshell the Obama Abortion arguments of evangelicals go like this:
"Obama Defends an Indefensible, Brutal, Murderous Philosophy" vs. "Yeah, Okay, But It Doesn't Really Matter"
To me, it matters.
okokokok so...I've been wanting to tell someone this for a long long time. This is what I understand Obama's two stalwart 'slogans' to mean, at least for me:
ReplyDelete"Change" - that's what you'll have left after he's done taxing your paycheck.
"Hope" - the only thing we can cling to after he's elected!
haha ZING!
ReplyDeleteI came to this site after reading some stuff you commented over @ Johnvoelz.com.
ReplyDeleteI am an evangelical pastor who is still trying to decide!
Here's my stance:
First, we've had 8 years of pro-life President and nothing has changed!!! NOTHING!
Second, even if we did vote MCcain, he is not the kind of politician to be fighting Roe v. Wade. Remember Republicans (I say that because I am independent, not Democrat), MCcain has been called the Maverick why? Because he is just that! He doesn't go the way either party wants him to. He'll just worry about what he wants to worry about. Energy, energy, POW camps, energy, energy and so. Notice MCcain is not running on a PRO-Life platform. He just mentioned a few times that he is pro-life (only when asked). Second, MCcain did a terrible job of even defining what a Christian is when Rick Warren asked him what being a Christian means to him. For a man that is a Christian, it's hard for me to believe that he doesn't know how define a Christian.
Finally, Obama did vote pro-abortion. And though I disagree with that, there are more issues in this race that just abortion. I am not saying that is not important, but there is more at stake. If we elect a president who is pro-life, but rips the economy apart.... well then we've done our country a disservice. In response to Scottyh, unless you make over a couple hundred thousand a year, then don't worry about the taxes.
I can't say I am voting either side, but I can say that both sides have alot of faults! I will never vote another Bush into office and I will not just concentrate on one issue. My responsibility as an American and as a Christian is to vote on ALL the issues, not just one.
so tim what do u think about what consuming fire had to said?
ReplyDeletethanks for the comment "consuming fire".
ReplyDeleteI work for a small business. It's me and my dad, buying and selling industrial tools out of his basement. We're a corporation. Obama wants to raise "corporate" taxes. We already pay 35%, but Obama said in first debate "with all the loop holes, our tax rate for corporations is effectively the second lowest in the world". Man, would I like to know where these loop holes are!
The majority of corporations are small(like us), and don't have the money to pay professionals to find loop holes in the tax code. Raising the corporate tax from 35% to 45% or whatever, WILL HURT my family and our income, and I make a whopping 45k a year(a great income, but not "rich" by American standards) my dad makes a little more. So you see, the idea that raising "corporate" taxes effects only the "fat cats" is total nonsense. If he thinks the tax code is being abused, reform it, don't raise my already insane price of doing business, to pay for your "government will solve all our social ills" programs. Because government does such a great job with Amtrak and the Post Office. Those places are models of efficiency and profitability. This issue seriously drives me up a wall.
I don't like McCain either. I'm not a republican either. I'm not saying, "hey, McCain is a better Christian than Obama". That would be ridiculous to try and quantify. I'm saying, like it or not, abortion is a watershed issue for our time, and Obama is wrong, WAY wrong on it. Period.
We can argue back and forth on who is better on National Defense, Economic Policies, etc.
But the issue of valuing human life, a very fundamental issue for us as a nation(LIFE, liberty, the pursuit) not just us as "Christians" is NOT open for debate. Obama refuses to confer rights and protections to certain people, PERIOD.
You can say that McCain isn't being completely truthful or reliable when he says he DOES support equal rights for all people. But that argument is rather silly, to be frank. You're saying McCain isn't Pro-Life enough for you, and yet Obama is as Pro-death as they come, and you're willing to overlook that.
There is a lot at stake, yes. We can all come down on different sides of the economic, foreign policy, and energy debates. Lord knows there are pundits a plenty for each side, all proclaiming the wisdom of their candidate and the folly of the other.
But on this debate about Life, there is no punditry for Obama. Every evangelical I talk with about it has no defense for his position. They either attack McCain for not being Pro-Life enough(as if this somehow would justify voting for a candidate that's as pro-death as they come), or the issue is simply brushed aside. Deemed "unimportant" in light of the "pressing issues" of our time. Let's just pray about that. Let's just be a good witness, and hopefully mothers won't want to murder their children.
I just can't adopt either outlook. Imagine if a presidential candidate said "I'm not sure if the people of Australia are human or not. If an American feels it necessary to kill an Australian, we should protect their right to make that decision". Would anyone vote for that candidate?
Yes, Roe Vs. Wade has not been overturned in the past eight years of Bush. That doesn't make it o.k. for me to disregard the candidates views on the issue of abortion. I'm not ready to surrender my conscience and vote for a guy that doesn't value human life.
Tim,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your response to "consuming fire" completely & totally.As your father, I am very proud of your thinking & your stand on this issue.
Dad
I smell something in the air. Ah yes it’s the foul the smell of plagiarism. To quote Krusty the Clown "if this is anybody but Steve Allen you're stealing my bit".
ReplyDeleteNow that I've dispensed with the pleasantries how's it going? I'm actually back in school, which is one of the reasons I didn't start up my own blog. I have been commenting on other blogs which is the method they recommend for networking. That's all for now, I'll read your other posts and leave comments if they interest me, or if you've broken the 8th commandment in them as well.
Niv
ReplyDeleteIn all matters of intellectual property rights I must refer you to my attorney-at-law, Mr. Lionel Hutz. He can be reached at the Springfield YMCA from 3-5pm, ask the front desk to connect you with the AA meeting room.
niv
ReplyDeleteI'm good man. Watching the kids grow, they are amazing. What other blogs are you reading?